Courtesy in the bathroom

So I was reading in an online paper, and came to the editorial section.  Man, do I love me some editorials.  Occasionally, it's interesting to see people who get whacked about the dumbest stuff. A letter to the editor about litter, or movie times, or the color of the byline used. Sometimes there is a letter that just makes you go hmmmm.   Today's entry was really quite interesting and eye opening, and I'd love to get your viewpoint.

There was a compelling letter written by a disabled lady, who went into the restroom and found the handicapped stall occupied.  She was in some distress, needing to use the facilities most urgently, and was upset when the door opened and a woman left the stall with her children, none of whom were visibly disabled.  When confronted as to her use of the handicapped stall when she was not handicapped, the mother replied something along the lines of "having children in the bathroom with you is a disability." 

Well.  And hmmmm.  And, well, yes, both sides of the coin.

Let's face it- going to the bathroom with kids IS tough.  I'd hardly equate it to being wheelchair bound or unable to use my arms, legs or eyes, but it is still a bit of a tricky situation.  I'm usually in the stall with two little ones, so I can appreciate the mother in her desire for more room.  Some of the stalls I've been in - I'm talking to you, Wal -Mart - are so tight that it's difficult to shut the door without straddling the commode.  Slide two little inquisitive beings in there with you, touching everything and looking everywhere, and it's enough to make one want to wet themselves to avoid the situation.  Most of the time, if I have to take the littles, I do take the handicapped stall, if it's not in use and no one is waiting.  It just gives me more room to move.  I always tell my bigger kids not to use it, unless they have a sibling with them.  I really don't want a little one going into a stall by herself, and the other option would be for her to leave the door open. 

But, yet. 

I wouldn't say that the disabled woman was out of line for wanting to have the stall available for her use.  It is reserved - although, maybe not reserved, but appropriated - for those who struggle with the regular stall.  BUT.  I just said that up above, I struggle with the regular stall.  And, then, why should the disabled woman expect that she would never have to wait in a bathroom?  Everyone waits at one point in time or another.  Should she have to wait, just because I need more room?  Or should everyone avoid those stalls, much as we do the parking spots?  I'm conflicted.  Surprise!  I don't know WHAT to think! 

Discuss amongst yourselves, as I ponder how I found my lost wallet in the recycle bin and really meditate and learn to appreciate the comment left to me by the peachy Melissa, in the post where I confessed to misplacing my debit card:

Perhaps if you didn't spend time writing this blog, you wouldn't have to rush around and maybe you wouldn't have forgotten your debit card, and this whole pathetic situation could have been avoided. And shame on you for not getting in the back of the line to begin with, do you blame the Surly Girlie? Just because you have kids in tow and forgot your money, doesn't mean the world stops for you. Come on, set a good example for your kids!

Amen.  Pretty much, though, I'd have to rush around everywhere if I didn't spend my time writing this blog, since I'd undoubtedly be drinking heavily and I'd be late any place that I went.  The blog is my sanity.  Thanks for reading, though - I appreciate your input, Melissa!  I promise to reflect on your position the next time I forget my debit card, and I won't look for special treatment just because I have kids!

Comments

[Jodi@OC]

I absolutely use the handicapped stall if I have kids in tow. I think it is reasonable that even the disabled people will need to wait in line for a stall.

If there are family style bathrooms available I use those though.

[Tina]

I never figured the handicapped stalls to be "reserved", like the parking places. I just figured they were there as a larger option. I, too, use them with kids. There is nothing there to say "For Handicapped Only", so I feel she has an unrealistic expectation to have it always avaliable.

[Melessa]

When they put the changing tables in the handicapped stalls (as is common here where I live) what does that mean?

In college we once interviewed a handicapped woman for our "education of different learners" class. She said the handicapped stalls (at least at the University) were free game as far as she was concerned.

Now that my kids are older, I tend to use the smaller stalls and make them stand just outside where I can see their feet. When they were little...well, I'm just glad I never caused a confrontation. But again, that's almost always where you find the public bathroom changing tables here.

Also, I forgot my debit card the other day and when I got back in line the cashier called me up to the front as soon as she spotted me. I think she wanted my stuff out of the way.

[Sheree]

My understanding is that handicapped stalls are there for the convenience of the disabled (and also to fulfill the ADA requirements). Unlike handicapped parking stalls, however, they aren't legally reserved solely for the usage of disabled persons. So I don't feel bad for using the larger stalls, with or without my kids in tow.

FWIW, 90% of the handicapped stalls around here have changing tables installed in them...which is probably a testament to who usually uses the stalls (parents with children, not disabled folk).

Obviously, if I walked in and saw a person in a wheelchair I would let them use the handicapped stall first. I don't agree that having kids with you is a disability- that's just a load of hooey IMO. But if I had my small ones in a handicapped stall and a disabled person was as rude to me as the person in your post....well, I doubt I would have been civil to them- wheelchair or no.

And BTW I was in a wheelchair myself for nearly a month when I was in my mid20s. What an eye opener!!! I can totally empathize with the disabled (tho obviously a month wheelchair bound is nothing compared to being there your whole life). But being disabled doesn't give you any more right to be rude or pushy than being able-bodied, or having kids with you.

[Annika]

Handicap stalls are NOT reserved. The law says that they must be AVAILABLE for the handicapped; however, anyone may use them. The writer has an unearned sense of entitlement.

In other news, I sure wish Melissa would read my blog! There just isn't enough judgment in my life right now.

[MJ]

I probably would have just apologized she had to wait and say in todays world to keep them safe i have to have them in there with me and that was the only stall iwth enough room.

I think bout the times when there are a million women in line waiting in the bathroom, I dont think I ever recall people not using the handicapped stall then. It seems most use whatever is available.

And yes quite often the diaper deck is in there, so you have no choice but to use that stall.

Hmmmm.

[theotherbear]

Hmm, tricky one. I would probably use the disabled loo if there were little kids with me, but can also understand why the lady in the wheelchair thought it was only for disabled folks. I hate the fact that car parks have special spots for parents with prams. Yes, I know it is not reasonable but I can't help a little voice inside me to think "Where is my special Reserved for DINKS parking spot?" It's ok, at this stage I only let it be a voice in my head so nobody knows how unreasonable I am. So maybe the woman felt some ownership of the toilet. Poor lady, I'd be cranky if I was in a wheelchair too.
Lots of shopping centres here have a separate room for parents with children so that isn't a problem in that scenario.

[Chrissie]

I use the handicap stall when I have my kids too. No way am I leaving a 4yo and an 11m old outside of the stall. And with a cart or stroller, there's no way it's fitting in a regular stall either.

[Doris]

No way is that stall "reserved" for handicapped people. If it was, it wouldn't be used 95% of the time the bathroom was opened. Even if I was alone and the handicapped stall was the last one free, I'd sure as heck go in and pee. I also have a handicapped daughter and I have no problem waiting for someone else to finish up. Now if I saw a single non-disabled person walk out of the larger stall when I needed it because of my kids and all the other stalls are free, then I would be miffed. it's all just common courtesy.

[Mel]

I use whatever stall I want to use. So there. Sue me.

[margalit]

Um, handicapped person here. I see I'm the only one that is actually handicapped. So I'm gonna tell you once, and only once. That handicapped stall IS FOR HANDICAPPED PEOPLE. It is not for people with children. Under the Americans with Disabilities Act, by law public buildings MUST provide handicapped people not only a way to get into and out of the buildings, and to navigate around public buildings, but to have bathroom stalls that are for them. Not for families. For the handicapped ONLY.

Sorry you don't like that, or you're inconvenienced, but that's the facts, jack. As a handicapped individual I am FURIOUS when I can't use a stall if I'm in my chair. There are times when I'm in a chair and I have to pee because part of my sickness is helped by diuretics which make me pee fairly constantly, and I can't pee because someone is using the handicapped stall. You can bet your ass I tell them that the stall is not for them.

And btw, handicapped parking ALSO is not for you. I don't care if you're 'just running in for a second' or 'my baby is sleeping in the car' or whatever your lame excuse is. Handicapped parking is for HANDICAPPED people. I cannot even begin to tell you the number of times I have had to turn around and leave a parking lot because there were no parking spaces for me due to asshats that parked in them illegally.

For once, could everyone PLEASE consider how difficult it is to be handicapped and how much of a challange it is on a regular day before you go taking away what is rightfully BY LAW theirs to use. Like handicapped bathrooms and handicapped parking?

Thanks!

[CharmingDriver]

To my eye, nobody here was arguing or debating handicapped parking spaces.

The ADA mandates the availability and accessibility of handicapped restrooms; nowhere is it mandated their use is exclusive to handicapped people.

As has been mentioned, many stores install diaper changing stations in the larger handicapped stalls for the logistics. Numerous small businesses that have only one restroom per gender by default construct it to be accessible to disabled customers. That certainly doesn't limit it's use to only those with handicaps.

The ADA wasn't created to provide special provisions or to ensure that nobody has to wait, ever; it was created to level the playing field and make certain the same facilities are available for both the able bodied and disabled. Meaning that nobody is above waiting and that isn't what handicapped stalls were created to eliminate.

Also, is it somehow better to wait if someone with a disability is in the stall versus someone without? A wait is a wait is a wait when you have to go.

I hope, sincerely, that you at least ask someone's full medical history before blasting them for using ''your'' restroom. Because strangers in restrooms surely are obliged to tell you about disabilities and illnesses that may not be immediately visible at a glance. I know when I had a delicately placed PICC line and numerous other ''hidden'' accouterments following the birth of my son, I would have paid cash money to have someone question me about assigned seating in a restroom designed for use by the public as a whole.

[chewymom]

No, the handicapped stalls are not like parking spaces. If there's a line with a handicapped person in it, obviously that person should be allowed to use the handicapped stall, since that is her only option. But with no line, anybody can use it. Being in a wheelchair DOES mean that accomodations (like larger stalls) need to be made. It does NOT mean that the person has the right to her own personal bathroom that nobody else is allowed to use!

I mean no disrespect to handicapped people--I have a disabled son, so I'm all about sensitivity to others. But puh-leeze. A toilet is a toilet. As long as using one does not prevent a handicapped person from using it, go for it.

[Cris]

In all my days of being an avid pee'er in public places, I have rarely even seen a handicapped person in a bathroom. Maybe I am sheltered-I don't know. Also, when we are in public I could bet money on the fact that my little one will have to go poo-not just #1, but #2. I need room for this because we will be spending time singing the ABC song in order for her to feel relaxed enough to do the duty.
I will say this though-yesterday I was at the hospital for an appointment and I walked into the bathroom and found a daughter trying to help her elderly mother collect a urine sample in the bathroom--where there was no handicapped stall, and so everyone was a witness to this poor woman's humiliation. If any place should have a handicapped stall, you would think it was a hospital! Although, if my daughter were with me she would have had to go poo and therefore we would have been in the handicapped stall... so the urine sample would have had to wait.

[Shannon]

I don't believe the stalls are only for the handicapped if they were they wouldn't have baby changing stations. I use them whenever they are free I hate tring to manuever around the nasty stalls that haven't been cleaned in days...that also doesn't mean I wouldn't give priority to someone in a wheel chair or whatever. Everyone does have to wait at some point in their life.

[lyns]

Iam in agreement with most... having spent two years as a teenager "handicap" due to surgery and now being a mother with 3 kids and one on the way, and the fact that if there is even a changing table availble it is ALWAYS in the handicap stall.... so what do I think...

I think its a bathroom....I think that we all wait in line to use it (and waiting with a three year old who is newly potty trainied isn't any eaiser than waiting in a wheelchair (and I have done both!!)
When we lived in Hong Kong, at the one food court they had a separate bathroom altogether for handicapped persons (you had to go to the "manager" on duty to get the key, this too was inconvienant to those who may have needed the room in a hurry!!!) but no non-handicapped person could use it!!

If I go into a bathroom alone, I do my best to NOT use that stall, however if I am next in line and that is the stall that becomes open, I go in.

The two years I spent having to only use that stall, I can't remember being upset if someone other than a hanicapped person used the stall, only because I didn't think myself any more in need of the bathroom than those waiting in front of me, I remember feeling espcially sympathetic for little kids...I remember not being able to "hold" it for the long wait when I was a kid!!!

So...I think that we just all need to get a long.... handicap, able bodied, or moms with kids... its a potty people!!! xo lyns

[wookie]

I am in agreement with the majority... the fold down change table is usually in that stall so I don't have a lot of options. It's absolutely not the same thing as the parking spaces (which I've never used).

I'd never use it if someone who needed it was waiting, though. But by the same token, it's a public bathroom, and sometimes, you gotta wait a minute.

You can sometimes maneuver one child and one adult in a regular stall (if you're slender) but one adults, a diaper bag and 2+ squirmy kids, and maybe one of those infant carseats? If you're asking me to leave my kids outside the door, that's dangerous. I'm asking you to wait, which is inconvenient and uncomfortable. Not the same thing at all.

[Betsy]

I also will use the handicapped bathroom with my kids, if its available. Usually non-handicapped people are using it anyway. For safety reasons is the main reason. Otherwise I have to leave the door open to help little ones,which I have done. I was also in a medical building the other day downtown Atlanta -the restroom had only 2 very small stalls, so I changed my poopy 1 1/2 yr. old standing up- not even in a stall! That's talent!(no one else was in there) WHat about older boys? My 7 yr. old son sometimes insists on using mens- I will stand outside the door,opening it every 30 seconds and calling his name out! Half the time I force him to come in the womens. What do you do with older boys?

[Jess]

I have to admit I have used the handicap stall when Bryce was a baby and in a stroller. I had to go and I was by myself and there was no way in hell I was leaving him out there by himself. I did my business as quickly as possible and prayed to God that no one was waiting for the stall. Thankfully there wasn't. I am VERY thankful for the stores that have family restrooms. It makes life a lot easier when you have more than one child or you have a child in a stroller.

[amy]

The handicapped stalls are not reserved like parking places. It is there so that if you are handicapped, you can get yourself into the stall just as if you have kids with you or an older person that you need to assist, you use it in order to manage your business most efficiently. Also if there is nobody else there, feel free to use it. Most of the time, people are finished rather quickly and the next person in line is able to use it too. I do not feel anyone should feel guilty for using a handicapped stall as long as they are not wresting it away from someone in a wheelchair!

[Nohe 5]

I totally use the handicap stalls and I don't feel even the littest bit guilty about it. My kids are 6, 4, 1 and I am 6 months pregnant; we need some room or everyone will get a pee pee shower from my son. Plus, I usually have the little one in a stroller. If there were someone waiting for the handicapped stall, handicapped or another mother, I would wait and have waited. However, if someone else who was forced to wait for me got uppity about it, I would probably say, "I'm sorry for your inconvience, but we have as much of a need for the extra space as you do. I hope you can understand. If you had been here first, I would have waited for you. And, if you've ever been pregnant, you would know that one good sneeze can make all your waiting pointless, but that is just what you have to do sometimes." Then when I got home I would write about it in my blog and wave my tiny fist in the air with complete indignation.

[Chantal]

I've used the handicapped stall - most often to change diapers. That's where the diaper changing station is in most bathrooms. It's happened where a handicapped person has walked in and I've said "Oh, sorry! I'm almost done!" and was greeted with "No worries, I can wait." Even with that, what should I have done if she had told me to high tail it out of there?

That said - I've NEVER parked in a handicapped spot. Ever. It's illegal and wrong.

On to the commenter about how you spend your time. Must be nice to have all the answers. I've gotten the same comment before, of how I would have more time if I didn't post on my blog. I think people grossly overestimate how long it takes me to fire off a post!

[Liza]

Y'know what? I totally use the handicapped stall and I make no apologies. If I'm out by myself of course I don't, or if I'm with my potty-trained child only, who is old enough to stand outside the stall. But if I'm with the developmentally-delayed toddler and the baby, I wheel the double stroller right in there. Everyone has to wait for a stall sometimes and y'know what? I'm going to go ahead and say that in a case like this maybe the other woman shouldn't have waited to the point where the length of time it took that mom to use the restroom was such an onerous burden upon her. C'mon over and flame me if you want, but I have a degenerative neuromuscular condition of my own and on the rare occasions when I am more or less crippled by it I always make sure to go before I leave the house or head to the restroom expediently enough that if I have to do some extra maneuvering (or waiting for the "regular" stall, which I still use because I do not use a chair) all will still be well. There are such things as learned helplessness/entitlement issues, and simply having a disability (and I know very well there is nothing simple about it--believe me, with three special-needs kids in addition to my own issues I know how hard it is to live with physical disabilities and the attendant pain and paperwork--I use the term "simply" in this case to indicate that I am referring to that one quality of a person alone) does not mean that society owes you a dang thing except the same treatment everyone else gets. I've waited plenty of times for both kinds of stalls. Now, it DOES irritate me if I see a single, apparently healthy person come out of that stall, but oh well.

[Deb L]

Frankly, I wish restrooms would make ALL the stalls spacious and accessible. I'm not a big person, and many of the "regular" stalls out there barely give you enough room to shut the friggin' door, much less maneuver to a. hover over the seat if the seat-cover-papers are out; or b. change feminine hygiene products.

I'll use the spacious stall if I have kids with me, because helping kids do their business takes room. When I was pregnant I used the spacious stall, because I was ungainly and awkward, with my sense of balance out-of-whack, and because I needed the grab bar to get myself back off the friggin toilet thanks to back/sciatic issues.

If someone is obviously headed to the restroom with a walker or in a wheelchair, I'll try to cram the kids into a small stall if they are desperate; or wait for the other person to use the stall first if the kid can wait. But I'm not going to avoid using an empty stall with no line, just because it is bigger than the other stalls and someone handicapped "might" come into the bathroom.

Instead of fighting and complaining over who uses the nice stall, why not lobby businesses to make all the stalls big? Seems better than belittling other women.

[Shelly]

I use it all the time with my little boys. If not, then every lady in the restroom has a visitor! If they are in the stall with me, they can't be roaming on hands and knees to the stalls.
What do you do when your child is a baby?! Just wheel that stroller right in. The baby is safe from those who might harm your child.
We see this at Childrens Hospital Los Angeles. Everyone is respectful of each other and our situtations.
Besides, I do have two children with handicaps and though they don't look like it, they need my help with toilet needs.

Just my 2cents.