Opening Up A Can of Worms

Jennifer asks a question that I've avoided before:  I recently got into an internet blogument with a blogger who stated that sending your children to public school was akin to making them targets for Satan. I know that you are a practicing Catholic (like myself) and I know that you have sent your children to Catholic school. What are your thoughts on homeschooling, and do you think that there is this underlying pressure to amongst certain circles to homeschool your children if parochial/private school is not an option?

Oh, hai. I REALLY don't want to get into a whole public school/private school/homeschool debate. Just like my attitude on how many children one should have, I think FIRMLY that everyone should do whatever schooling option works for them.  SO, please do not take anything that I'm saying here as the gospel truth. I'm doing what works for my family. And this is a topic that has been on my mind a tremendous amount since, say, the middle of May.

What happened in the middle of May, you may well ask?

A little background.

I went to public school my whole life, as did my sisters.  We got a decent education.  At the time, this city was known for it's educational system. When I had kids, I looked into the public system and, while I didn't know much, I did know that the school system had fallen a notch or two, and so we decided to send our kids to private school at our church.  We have been really happy there.  The education has been top notch and two of our kids have graduated from there - the school goes Pre-k to 8. Every teacher I've been involved with has been stellar and I never, ever worry about dropping my kids at school.  No worries at all.  It's not perfect - no situation ever is - but this has worked for us.  About five years ago, we began to apply for financial aid - once we had four kids in school at once - and so we were able to continue there. Know this - my dad and his wife both teach public school and my sister is a counselor at a public school - so I'm aware of how things are, and that there are really good public schools.

But this year more people than ever applied for financial aid, and there was less aid than ever donated - and the upshot of it is, the tuition is out of reach this year.It's twice what we paid last year and that was a tough amount to pay some months.  I don't fault ANYONE at all, so if your kids go to school with mine, or you work there - don't you dare try to start something.  I will say it again.  It is NO ONE'S fault - except maybe the economy.  And the Terrorists.  It's been tough to make the normal bills, never mind the tuition - I've documented here a time or twelve that it's been tough. In fact, I never told you this - but in the spring, we were having a really tough time and a very kind anonymous person went in and paid a huge chunk of change on our account - enough to cover three months of tuition.  Without the kindness of this particular stranger, my kids may not have been able finish out the year last year. I have been beyond blessed and extremely grateful.

So when I saw the financial aid awards for next year, I was crushed.  CRUSHED.  Because it meant that I wasn't going to be able to send them to this school next year, and we've been there for twelve years.  Our tuition for next year is just shy of double what it was for last year. This school is the only school that I know, and I love it there and so do my kids. I took a day and went and investigated the public schools that my kids would attend - and I left literally in tears. When I went in to the public elementary school - where three of my kids would go - I didn't even know the questions to ask,(I must have looked like the biggest idiot ever, I kind of stood there with my mouth ajar) and finally settled for a copy of the curriculum. Looking at it was so depressing. The goals for the next year are ones that my kids met in the first half of LAST YEAR. So it would be a step back - a really large step back - for all of them.  Not to mention that I'd have to get an IEP for two of my kids - the two who have educational roadblocks that their current and next years teachers are aware of and work around. There is no working around, I was told by the administrator at the school. Any special situations need an IEP - no exceptions. I'm not even gonna touch my feelings on the middle school. I HATED IT and think it is the absolute WORST choice for Mackenzie. I was, however, VERY impressed with the public high schools, especially the academy programs - and so Allegra will be attending one of the academies.  She's thrilled and so am I - it's a really good fit for her. I can't put her in private high school, and in any case, she doesn't want to go. She is thrilled to go public.  Yay her - and she gets to ride the bus.  My first ever kid that I don't have to transport AND she gets to ride the bus for soccer practices.  I have NO transport to do for her.  Yay me! I think it's great for her - she gets to go out in the world a little bit and be exposed to things while she's still at home and we can (hopefully) guide her and keep her exposed to our morals.  Which, I know, won't be HER morals when she grows up - I've raised two teenagers before, I know the drill, but I can hope, eh?

This situation doesn't touch Nik, who goes to the Catholic High School.  But Nik is going to be a senior - there's absolutely no way I can take him out of his school in his senior year, but the tuition is more than $10,000 for him. Totally and 100% out of reach. Seriously- ten grand. And a very minimal amount of aid. I sold my Jeep last year, we tried to sell the house - we've done what we can.

Not to mention that the school my kids attend has daily recess - at least 20 or more minutes every day on a sheltered beautiful playground and I am adamant that this is KEY to a good day, especially for boys - and there's no teaching to the test - the standardized testing is big in the public schools and fully half of the teaching is to those goals.  ALSO - I really love the religious training that my kids receive. The values and morals have been priceless and I now that I could NEVER EVER EVER do the job that the teachers that my kids have had have done. Truly, I so admire and respect each and every one of them. My kids know well more than I do about religion, morals and the teachings of the church. I consider some of their teachers to be the best in the business.

So I've thought several scenarios over and over.  In one, I keep the two little girls where they are and send the two middle kids to public - but then I'd have kids at five different schools on FIVE different schedules.  I don't know if I could do that. In the second, I put everyone in public and hold my breath. This scenario disappoints me on so many levels.  I think it'd be a wasted year - the things that they have already learned will be repeated, not to mention how incredibly hard it will be for Riley to start all over again at a new school - where she went last year, PK and K are in a separate small building and she knows everyone.  Emma was in the class that she'll be in, so she's at home and very comfortable. I can't imagine how she'd deal with the change and what it will do to her - she THRIVES on routine and knowing what to expect. Ideally, I'd be able to keep everyone where they are.  I might be able to do so if I can save some money over the summer to pay down the cost of the tuition to an affordable amount, and it's possible that more aid will free up if other families elect not to return. If the curriculum wasn't behind, I'd probably send them to public, but I REALLY hate the thought of a wasted year.

I do NOT think that sending kids to public school is making them targets for Satan.  Hell, I wouldn't send Allegra there if I did.  I think that it's a great thing, but I don't know if it's a good fit for my kids right now.  It just seems wrong on so many levels that I can't see it'd be right, if that makes sense.

Now, on to your questions - so sorry to be so verbose, but this situation has REALLY been bugging me and I see no way out of it.

My thoughts on homeschooling?  I SO admire people who do it. I can't.  I just can't.  I'm bossy and controlling and need my space and my time. I've tried to do homeschool in the summer and it ends up with all of us irritable, someone throwing books, pencils flying through the air and feet storming off. Usually mine, sigh. Homeschooling is not for us. I do indeed think that there is an underlying pressure among those who are more religious to homeschool - I've been put down in the past by some very traditional families who feel that sending the kids to the school we do is akin to sending them into the depths of Hell. Homeschooling works for them in a way it doesn't for me, just like - well, just like I've already explained.

Jennifer, I'm so sorry that you experienced this blogument, and I'm sorry for monopolizing your question with my own brain dump. With that, I'd LOVE to hear any readers take on all of the issues that jennifer brought up, and the dilemma I am facing in my own life as well.

Comments

[mimbles]

I'm an atheist with a strong philosophical commitment to public, co-ed, comprehensive education BUT! I live in an area of Sydney, Australia where the demographics and the schooling system make that a very easy ideal to uphold. I love our local public schools.

So I probably would not have chosen the same things as you did for my kids if I were living in your particular part of the world, but my heart aches for you having to face these decisions. Your kids are happy where they are, they are getting what they need from their schooling and to be obliged to pull them out and start the process of settling in to a new environment all over again really does suck. Of course people do change schools, states, even countries all the time and the kids turn out just fine - but you're not choosing this so it hurts, a lot.

I do think you do yourself a disservice when you say you couldn't do as good a job of passing on your values to your kids as the teachers have done. You and your husband are your children's primary teachers when it comes to a value system, if you weren't reinforcing at home the things they are taught at school I'd be willing to bet the lessons would never have stuck so well. Trust yourself Carmen, whatever decisions you make about the kids schooling it will work out ok in the end. *hugs*

Much love
Mim

As for homeschooling, my youngest once announced to me that if I wouldn't take him out of school and homeschool him he would never do his homework again. My reply? "No way in HELL!" There'd be murder inside 3 days! LOL

[Pearl]

I know the angst that comes with having to make these kinds of decisions. My heart and my prayers go out to you. We never had the option of private school simply because of the financial situation. Our older two went to public school. The middle two went to public school, were homeschooled for a few years in the middle and then went back to public school. The baby was homeschooled from birth to graduation. We made a decision for each child each year based on what was best for our family at the time. NOBODY can make those decisions better than you. And there is NO one size fits all solution.

My daughter is using an option available in our state called "Virtual School". She homeschools by utilizing the classes available online. Each child is assigned a teacher for each subject who teaches the material, gives out the assignments, administers the tests and awards the grades. The parent chooses the classes and is able to monitor all student/teacher contact but is not in the position of having to "teach". And the teacher is always just a phone call or email away should questions or disputes arise. It is really the best of both worlds. She utilizes homeschool support groups and sports classes for extracuricular activities and socialization needs. If something like this is available in your state it may be a viable option, particularly for your middle school children.

Oh, yeah, and living on this planet makes our kids (and us) targets for satan. As parents it is our job to protect our kids to the best of our ability from the evils of this world. The example of our own faith lived out before them, setting boundaries on the influences that bombard them and constantly debriefing and teaching them right from wrong are our best weapons of defense.

I'm praying that God will give you wisdom and peace in making these decisions.

[Kim]

When kids get bored (your fear of a waster year) there is always trouble. Is it possible they will be able to skip ahead a grade once the teacher sees they are ahead? Sometime our fears are unfounded. Do what you can afford, make some changes and once school starts up again you can always make more changes if you have to.

[Katherine]

I'm right there with you. I could have written this! I have two grandparents contributing to tuition, I have financial aid and we just go without protein sometimes! We are in Norfolk and you can FORGET what schools ours would go to, and I can't afford to move. My kids would be KILLED in the HS our neighborhood busses to. I have cried and prayed, cried and prayed over paying the tuition for our two Catholic schools. We have NO money and every month I dread tuition time. You are SO right about the NON FINANCIAL AID this year. We are out thousands due to it not being there. I wish the Catholic church would see parents like us, absolutely STRUGGLING to send our kids to Catholic school - literally having boxed pancakes for dinner some nights IF we are lucky... our kids are an investment in the church's future... yet we can't afford to send them - so I wish the church could help! We are just plain old parents trying to give our kids a good CATHOLIC education - and it is forcing us to be stressed, to be without food, clothing... ARGHHHH And I LOVE THESE SCHOOLS - my kids THRIVE in them. Also, I'm not "overly religious" but I really like the idea that at the Christmas program they can sing about Jesus rather than Rudolph! Your post got me good LOL - I needed to vent just like you. What are we all going to do!

[Megan]

All good thoughts, and I'm a product of the VB public school system -- granted it's been EIGHT years since I graduated, good grief. I absolutely loved my time at Ocean Lakes, although I wasn't involved in their academy program (now called "magnet.) I wish that the academies had been as expanded then as they are now. Back then, it was just for math and science, which were not my stronger subjects. So while I don't know your kids, I feel good about your choice for Allegra. I think she will love it.

My middle and elementary school experiences, however, were overall pretty bad and I think you are right to be hesitant. Middle school was, for the most part, a lot of social difficulties and not much learning. Same with upper elementary. I've worked in a Virginia elementary school since then and I feel like, even with "teaching to the test," the curriculum is more in tune with the needs of kids than it was when I was a kid. But even so, the limited recess and emphasis on standardized testing are harmful. I think you are right to be wary, and it's terrible that your kids would lose ground. After a few years tutoring in a Title 1 school environment, and now hearing about what goes on in the schools here in Charlottesville and Albemarle from my co-workers, I think public schools are getting worse and worse and kids are learning less and less.

So -- I will keep my fingers crossed for you guys that the economy improves A LOT, or your house sells, or an extremely rich but not close family member dies.

[Megan]

Oops. I meant to say that Ocean Lakes' academy program was "magnet" when I was there. Not now.

[amie]

I live In MD & was school counselor in a public school in MD for 10 yrs. My twins 7 yr olds attend Catholic school for exactly the reasons you state- it is the right choice for our family. I have taken a lot of crap from my prev public school coworkers who do not respect our choice.We chose this school bc it is affiliated with our church, it is a SAFE environment , with involved staff and families. The have recess, snack, prayer partners from upper grades, real Christmas & Easter programs that focus on religious aspects of the holidays, do not teach to the test, learn to actually write letters and paragraphs and focus on literature, social studies, and science which go by wayside in public schools. I don't think this really helps your conundrum but I understand why u r torn. I guess I needed to vent too. My advice & it won't be popular is that if u do go w public school be bitch from the get go- . That comes from a former school counselor. Let the staff and administration know u r invovled and DEMANDING. You really WANT the IEP in public school bc that guarntees they are entitled to services form every teacher not jsut the good ones who do what kids need anyway as well as accommodations on those stupid standardized tests. A 504 is another option & u will have to fight for it bc schools do not want to give it as it brings no money to school- IEPs often do. I hope you can find an answer you can be at peace with over the next month. I would also say you might look at changes as temp trial - hopefully the econ will start to climb again in a yr or two and u can put the kids in a better fit .Plus by then u will prob only have 4 in schoool I think.

[BeeBelle]

I am with you on each parent deciding what is right. In fact, for me, it was much more like what you are doing - what's right for each particular kid? We did private preschool and public K-12 for the most part. Two of my kids were in a magnet gifted program, and one qualified but it wasn't the right program for him, so he stayed as top of his class in the regular program. I homeschooled one kid for three years and she loved it, then embraced going to public middle school (! of all times). We couldn't afford private for K-12, but luckily in our area there are a lot of public options with open enrollment.

College - now, that is costing us, and that's where my values of staying home with the younger ones is conflicting with working to pay for the older ones so they don't end up saddled with enormous debt.

[Sheri]

I love reading your blog. You don't know me from Adam, but I totally agree with Amie in regards to the IEP. I would have loved to send my kids to a private school, but the school was not interested at all in educating two children on the autism spectrum and one with ADHD....so we didn't.

Our public school system is one of the better ones in the state, but in reality, special ed sucks. The IEP makes sure that the teachers are held accountable for what they must teach your child. And since you don't really have much of a choice in who your children's teachers are--get one.

The whole bitch thing has worked for me too. If you are there in their faces, they can't ignore you. Volunteering works too, you'll soon figure out which teachers you are gonna have issues with, which kids you'd want yours to have over, etc.

Best of luck to you and your family!!!

[Reinventing Amy]

My parents sent me and my brother to a private church school for preschool-8th grade. I loved it and truly believe I received a better education. Our tuition wasn't very expensive, although my parents always had to budget for it (if I remember correctly it was around $200/mo for both of us). The best part was the small class sizes- everyone I went to school with forever feel like a brother or sister to me. Also, the curriculum was pretty strict and there was a lot of religion classes as well. Growing up going to school there definitely helped make me who I am today.

After 8th grade- I went to public school. Honestly, this was a super hard transition. Like you mentioned, public schools are behind in education compared to private schools. I spent my freshman year of HS bored out of my mind because I had already learned what they were teaching. I spent time as a spanish tutor in class helping out others. But because I was so bored, I got lazy in school for the rest of my HS years. However I still graduated in the top 5% of my class and I dont remember ever doing homework.

I think the one thing I'll say is that I wish I would've either been in public school the whole time or private the whole time. It's socially hard to make the switch and public school kids look at you differently coming from a private school.

[mary]

3 of my kids have or have had IEP's. I like em. :) We go to a meeting and all decide how everything is going to work for this kid, how much time they get here, here and here. What accomodations (sp) they receive, etc.
If there is ever a problem, which is rare, I refer to that IEP and the problem is solved. I make sure my HS student IEP kid GOES to the mtg to so he can say what he feels he needs and KNOW his rights.
I have been thrilled with my kids school but we are lucky enough to have a great K-12 school down the street (Illinois)
It has always seemed to me that IF you are a practicing Catholic your kids should be able to go to catholic school for free. Too bad I dont make the rules. :)
I cant imagine coming up with that much money. This economy sucks ass.

[Tina]

I feel for your situation. We too are moving to another area this summer and taking our two kids out of the only school that they known because of the economy... we can't afford to live here any longer. The new school seems good and I can only cross my fingers that it is as good as this one... but I do have one child that is having difficulties and is dyslexic. She however does not qualify for help because she tested "gifted"... but can't read and she is starting 2nd grade. COME ON! And because I live in the great state of California (NOT) their summer school was cancelled so they are suffering again because of the "economy" and greed of some... we won't go into that. AND to make matters worse.. I'm a certified teacher and can't get a job because of CA budget issues. Well, my whole point is that I understand and feel for you... as a parent we want to provide the basics: health insurance and a good education. So I hope everything works out in your favor and please KNOW that your not alone. :)

[amanda]

I was going to mention Virtual Classrooms but someone beat me to it! :-) My sister, who has learning disabilities, participated in the virtual school for 4 years in middle school and the first two years of high school with GREAT results - my mother also felt she couldn't homeschool well and with a bunch of kids herself, didn't think it was the best use of time. I was also going to suggest a magnet or charter school in your area? I attended a classical education charter school when Catholic school got out of financial reach for us and had a similarly awesome experience there. Just a few thoughts, who knows if they'll help. :-)

[Sarah]

We have one child who has attended the same Catholic school since kindergarten. She will be in6th grade in the fall. This school has been our second home and the people there our family. We never imagined we would be faced with making the decision to look else where, especially with only one year left. After much prayer we have made the heartbreaking decision to move to a different Catholic school. Our reasons vary from yours, although I will say that donations are also down for finacial aid in a large way as well. (Last year we were a school of 425 next year they are hoping for 175 students, again some finacial, some for other large reasons). I am dreading the decision about high school. We live in a big city and are fortunate enough to have 4 Catholic HS to choose from. Our 1st choice is almost $15,000 WITHOUT books and uniforms which is just not an option and public school here is poopy.

It is not a decision I would wish upon anyone else, but to make it work with mulitiple kids? I can't imagine. Best of luck to you and your family.

[kyoot]

There aren't a lot of choices in my area, almost everyone goes to public school. We live out of town so they are bussed in and that gives them a chance to meet new kids. The school system is also split between English and French. You could live next door to a pile of french kids and never meet them because their kids are in a seperate school system. (ugh)!

Also what happens for university $$?

[Anna]

Good luck, Carmen. I have two homeschoolers, 2nd grade and K. It's not easy for me, but because it's what I feel I must do, I make do.

[amie]

Though we don't have to think about it right now, I wish Catholic high school were even an option in our area. The closest one is 50 min away. I can't see extending the kids school day by 2hrs every day of travel time. Not to mention the expense of private high school is so much more than K-8, ugghh. Does this paretning thing ever get easier? Don't answer that.LOL

[Jennifer W.]

Hi Carmen, what about a charter school? Or a gifted program for the kids who are ahead? I'm a public school administrator and philosophically a proponent of free, public education -- but I know that is me and my choice. Best of luck to you and these difficult choices!

[Brandy]

Ah, Carmen, I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties. I homeschool my two children (using a Catholic Homeschool Curriculum), who are seven years apart in age. We are in a position that we can't afford private school and the schools in our area (the whole state, actually) are pretty bad. We started homeschooling our Daughter from the beginning because my husband was military and we wanted a constant situation for her because we moved often. It has worked well for us, but I can see where it wouldn't work well for others. We would dearly love to send out children to private school, especially for my Daughter for HS, but just can't afford it.
Best of luck and good wishes for your family.

[Anna]

I am surprised to hear that your school only gets one 20 minute recess each day, and the elementary might not get one at all. I think it is one of the most important times of the day for little kids to get out and get the blood flowing. From Kindergartern to sixth grade in public school (I just graduated HS, so not too long ago for me), we had a 15 minute recess at 10 AM, twenty minutes after lunch and another 15 mins at around 1:45. It gave the teacher's a short break to get things ready again for the next block of schooling and it gave the kids a time to cool off and just run for a little while. That bit of time each day to play and be a kid, when school is from 8 AM to 3 PM, is critical. My teachers taught to the test as required by the school district, etc, but they found creative ways to do it and we were never bored. We always looked forward to recess, though!
Good luck in figuring out the right schools for kids; I know it's hard with everything going on. Best of luck

[Headless Mom]

I think we'll just have to talk about this over drinks in 2 weeks!;-)

I wish I had more wisdom for you, but I certainly agree with whoever said that as far as the religious education goes you are probably more well-equipped than you think.

My gut feeling on the whole thing is to do what you can to get each kid in the best situation for that kid. Prioritizing as to needs/cost/ease of transition, etc.

I can't ever imagine homeschooling. Luckily we purposely bought in an area that has excellent schools. That's not to say that we won't be feeling the budget crunch in CA but we love our school, the teachers, etc. and I feel very lucky that, at least for the time being, I don't have any of these worries.

Allegra's situation sounds ideal!

[Lesli]

To Reinventing Amy,

I didn't get that Carmen said "public schools are behind in education compared to private schools." I think perhaps she's found that the ones in her area pan out that way, but that blanket statement doesn't work everywhere.

As an adult I moved back to the town I grew up in, and fully expected my children to attend the private Catholic school that I attended (quite happily, and to much success.) However, after checking into both that and the public schools I found that the public schools in my area actually offer more, a lot more, and are more advanced, than what my grade school from days of yore has available.

My oldest child is "gifted" (quoted as I just don't like that word...all children are gifted in something, but that's the label), just take this to mean he's extremely intelligent. Our public school offers the advanced programs that he is most definitely benefiting from, along with very close attention provided in the mainstream classroom to keep him interested. He is very beyond what he'd be taught at our area private school. My other grade-school age child is also advanced and is so far attracting the same attention and extra offerings to keep her growing and thriving that her brother is experiencing. So, I think it's all about the school itself, not public vs. private.

To Carmen...you seem so involved in your children's school that I'm a little surprised and dismayed on your behalf (and others in your situation who are as involved as you seem to be) that the school hasn't approached you with some sort of solution. Have you approached them...do they know what your situation is? I hope they can help, and that any way it pans out, that your kids are happy.

[Stephanie]

I can so feel your pain. My brother, sister and I all went to private school. My mom took on a job and her entire salary didn't cover the tuition. Growing up in that environment, I just always assumed my kids would also go to private school. Then came the reality check when my oldest was ready to go to school and we were (and still are) having trouble paying the mortgage and utilities. Add to that the fact that we live in a city with a horrible school district. They actually threatened to suspend my autistic 4 year old from Preschool for acting up in class. So that was obviously a no-go. We got lucky and enrolled him in a charter school 15 miles away. It was worth the drive to get a good school that is thrilled to have him and happy to meet his needs.

Good luck with your decisions. I'm sure they're not easy to make. (HUG)

[Young Wife]

I was homeschooled for high school after eight years in public school. I hate that Texas teaches to the test. My parents kept my brothers in public school. They did very well. My parents felt a lot pressure from their church friends to send their children to private school. My mother says that every child is unique. There is no perfect solution that works for every single child.

[Wendy]

The school your kids go to does have a great reputation (we have some friends who go there too), but I haven't heard anyone who is unhappy with the public schools around here. I can't speak to the lack-of-religion aspect (it's not one of my priorities) but we've been really pleased with the teachers our kids have had. Even my friend who hates public school and would love to send her kids to private school has been pleasantly surprised (and her kids don't go to one of the alleged "good" schools either.) So I guess my advice is don't fear what you don't know. If you try public and hate it, you can always go back. But if you find you don't hate it--it's free! And that is good.